No wonder they Fail

This socket has been under cover for weeks but it still gets a bit of moisture in it. My reckoning is the heat cycling sucks in moist air as it cools down every night.

Battery Charger Repair

As I've posted a while back, I have had some charger failures during the time I have been driving the Vogue.

To racap. TheVogue has 12 sub-packs each with 32 cells in it arranged as 2P16S (2 cells in Parallel and 16 cell pairs in series), making about a 53 VDC sub-pack. Each sub-pack has its own 3A charger.

The chargers cost me around AU$36 each - they were cheap. That said they are pretty well built and I am not absolutely sure that it's not partially my fault that they fail (my modification described here may cause instability in the current limit due to the proximity to the toroid). (Update 15th Nov 2016 - I'ts not my fault. I checked a charger that was running at 4.2 Amps and moved the daughter board around - it made no difference. They just drift up!)

It's also worth noting that I didn't have any failures from April 2014 to March 2016 - two years.

Generally the main power transistors fail (FJP13009) but in two of the chargers the switch mode power transformer has failed with shorted turns. I've been "sitting" on the first failure of this nature for over two years - mucking about with rewinding it (it worked but I couldn't fit enough turns on the core so I only got 3A up to 48V - I needed 59V).

Disassemble...

So when the second charger failed in April this year (2016) with the same transformer fault I got my act into gear and actually bought the correct enamel wire to rewind the first failed transformer.

So last night the repaired charger was included in my nightly charge and worked fine.

I really can't imagine why anyone would wind these transformers as a hobby (folk who play around with 12V to 240VAC inverters etc) - it's difficult.

Anyway, I have found a source of cores (the ferrite stuff) and bobbins (the plastic bit you wind the wire around with pins to terminate them) on eBay so I can make up some spares.

WHY DO THEY FAIL?

Over three years driving and charging and fixing this stuff and I finally have some understanding of (and a method of predicting) the failures.

The most recent failed charger was on pack #7. I had noted that pack #7 had been charging faster than the remaining 11 packs in the car and calculated it at over 4A charge rate. The chargers are really pretty maxed out at 3A - heat wise. I knew that I should pull it out and back it off  - but I deferred - too cold outside recently.

So it wasn't too much of a surprise when the charger for pack #7 failed - now I know more.

It's also notable that the Vogue draw slightly but measurably more power during charging (energy monitor logging overnight) when a charger has become unstable (more on that another time) - so I can see it within a couple of days and take action.

Last Charger Inline Fuseholder Replaced

I was about 1km into my trip to work this morning when the battery alarm went off.
Pack #3 in the boot (trunk) had it's indicator LED out so I bypassed the pack and continued to work - I wasn't even late.
At work I bypassed the VERY LAST of the inline fuseholders. Pack #3 was the last one and it visually had been looking OK (easy to see in the boot behind the polycarbonate partition) - but is wasn't - the fuse had melted it's way out through the end of the fuseholder. (For the full story click "fuse" in the Labels area on the right hand side of the blog pages - or click here.)

I was a little suspicious this morning when I saw (on the smartmeter web interface) that the chargers hadn't peaked at 2.7kW at 1AM. House load is about 250-300W so I normally see a minimum of 3.1kW.

(The mouse was hovering over the first bar for 1AM.)

A few minor Niggles

The Vogue has been going well except that a few minor problems have emerged - most have been dealt with.

Charger failure
The charger for pack #8 failed about 2 weeks ago and I used a spare for a few days. It was a real pain opening the bonnet each night to plug the spare in - I swapped it out permanently for one of my two spares last week. Unusually for me, I managed to repair the faulty charger. One of the two main switch transistors had failed - completely short circuited. I replaced it with one from an old not-working PC power supply. Slightly higher voltage rating but otherwise same specs. It's now my second spare charger.

Seat diaphragm failed
The front driver seat diaphragm has torn. I used TR6 seat diaphragms and made up some aluminium pieces to get the tension correct. It has torn on the side where there are two clips. I am deliberating whether to get another diaphragm from the UK (none in Australia any more), or use webbing similar to how I did the seat backs.
At the moment I have some foam packaging material rammed under the torn section to support the seat so that the foam and/or upholstery don't get damaged. I did plan to pull the seat out yesterday but it was too wet and cold outside and I had other stuff in the house that needed attention. I'll try to get to it on Saturday. At the moment we are travelling to central Victoria every Sunday to visit my Aunt who is in hospital.

I'm still hanging out for some spare time over the Christmas break so that I can catch up on some of the outstanding Vogue issues - suspension squeaks and thumps etc - oh and the driveline vibration.

Only One Fuseholder Remains - Economy Figures

I didn't post it at the time, but last Tuesday night I removed three of the last four inline charger fuseholders. I have one left and it's only there because I ran out of 4mm black heatshrink and it was the only one that looked to be in perfect condition. I'll do it as soon as the heatshrink (from eBay) arrives. With the fuseholders gone the Vogue was completely trouble free for the commutes last week.

Figures for week ending 26th July 2013
Monday: 8.84 AH for 39.2 km => 135 Wh/km
Tuesday: 6.68 AH for 31.9 km => 126 Wh/km
Wednesday: 7.20 AH for 33.6 km => 129 Wh/km
Thursday: 9.81 AH for 43.4 km => 136 Wh/km
Friday: 9.38 AH for 42.9 km => 131 Wh/km

(All battery to wheel)

As a curiosity, I usually make it to work at about 3 AH consumed - that's around 1800 Wh making the economy about 120 Wh/km (my record so far is 2.8 AH). The trip home is a lot worse and I have generally racked up over 6.6 AH by the time the round trip is completed. The difference in altitude is about 20 meters so doesn't explain it - but driving style does. Going to work I am generally not hassled by any other drivers so I can accelerate slowly and slow down at my leisure taking full advantage of regen braking. Driving home is a relentless wrestle with other road users to use as much regen as possible but not get in their way. The nett result is that driving home is less efficient. Accelerating up hills costs a heap of capacity.

My observation is that not many drivers are in a hurry to get to work, but most road users are in a hurry to get home.

I could improve this situation with more regen. At the moment it peaks around 25 Amps (battery) which is 1.25C. Headway (battery manufacturer) recommend a continuous charge current of of 1C (20A) and maximum continuous charge of 2C (40A). Perhaps I'm being too conservative. I really haven't had much time to mess around with configuration in the past few weeks.

Banana shaped fuseholders

I mentioned a post or so ago that some of the inline charger fuseholders have melted out of shape a fair bit.
This one is on Pack #5 in the boot. It hasn't failed yet - amazing! (The large flat heatshrink bit houses the two 3A heatsunk diodes that isolate the charger from the pack and the lower black wire and clump are the inline fuseholder.)

I only have three of these inline fuseholder left in the car - out of 12.

Pack #9 gave a low voltage alert about 800 Meters from home last night. I gently eased the car home and sure enough, the fuseholder had failed and Pack #9 hadn't charged much the night before.

It was 44.3 V unloaded and charged up fine with a clip-lead replacing the fuseholder.

Last "under the car" fuseholder bypassed

I didn't get to play around with the tailshaft this weekend but I did manage to crawl around under a slightly raised car and bypass the last of the hard-to-get-at fuseholders (in series with chargers). This was the one attached to pack #10 that I mentioned in the previous post. There are now only six of the unreliable fuseholders left and none of them are hard to get at.

One of the fuseholders in the boot still works but the heat has bent it like a banana.

Three more fuseholders bypassed

I spent about an hour and a half under the front of the car last night squeezing my hands up beside the inner front guard to cut out two of the offending fuseholders (packs #11 and #12), substitute a length of wire, and heatshrink the whole lot. The time was mainly spent trying to line up two pieces of wire (several times) with only one hand (tried many clips etc.) and solder with the other - while scrunched up in strange positions.

I also did the same treatment to pack #8 in the Engine Bay.
Pack #10 inline charger fuseholder is also about to fail. It's the hardest pack to get at without removing the top battery tray so I'm hoping it will hold on a week or so as I will be removing that tray to change the heater blower soon. It's marginal - if you rattle the charger wire while charging, the charger cuts back to balance mode - sigh.

So, fully charged again,  Il drove the Vogue to work today.

Vibration wise. I have now driven the car for a couple of days and the vibration is only a little bit better than it was with the M8 bolts holding the front flange in (allowing the spigot to be centered). While 90 km/h is possible, it feels the the motor bearings won't survive long. It's going to be a wet, cold weekend so I hope that I both get the time, and the enthusiasm to brave the cold and check it out further. I have my hose-clamps ready.

Timer waits for no-one - Neither do inline fuses!

I didn't drive the Vogue today - there were too many obstacles.
Firstly, last night I plugged into my wall timer and checked that is was set to auto - only to find that it had stopped entirely. The timer is a Chinese copy of the TP8A16, 16A 240 VAC timer.

It was designed to come apart, so come apart it did!

The 1.2V, 80mA/h NiMh button battery had EXPLODED.

I removed the cell and checked out the rest of the board - it appeared fine after a little cleanup.
A quick reverse engineer and I discovered that they use the battery as a 1.4 volt regulator. Without the battery there is about 6 volts at that point. The electronics doesn't like that so it didn't work. When I turned off the 240VAC, it worked for a few seconds as the voltage went down through the acceptable region. So the electonics was probably OK (amazing).

I removed the exploded cell and substituted two diodes in series where the battery used to be. It all worked fine. It only lasted about 5 seconds after mains disconnect but that would do for the night.

At least they used a 16 A relay.

I went out to the car at around 6:45AM this morning to check all was well (timer was set to start at 5AM and finish at 8AM) - but all was not well. I charge at 3 Amps and needed 6.6AH - so a bit over 2 hours required.

Battery pack #12 was indicating finished charging - all the rest were still charging as they should have been.
I checked pack #12 and it certainly wasn't fully charged - another inline fuseholder! I should have had them all changed out by now - oh well. previous fuseholder failure

Pack #12 is under the controller tray and hard to get at so I'll take my daughter's car as she is not due home until Thursday and I have to give it a full tank and wash it anyway.
That way the Vogue is also in the carport for some wiring surgery tonight. I'll try to bypass all three fuseholders under the engine bay without removing the controller tray. I'll see how I go...

Checking it's been Charged

I have a 15A timer on the wall of the carport to set my charge time and I don't use any kind of watt/hour meter to measure charge - and the car itself can't measure charge. So my primary method of checking if the Vogue charged during th night is the Energy Easy website which links to our electricity Smartmeter.

Here is what I see when I log in each morning.

 The Vogue starts charging at 2AM currently and is generally finished by about 4:30AM. The peak at 6:30AM is our bathroom towel rail turning on. The website is very useful as one morning a few weeks ago I logged on to find no peak at 2AM. The previous night I had checked all chargers by switching the timer to On, then pressed the button again to switch to Auto On and instead switched it to Off. Now I know to press it twice and also check the display.

No Problem Charging in the Rain

The Vogue was the last of three cars into our single lane driveway last night. I took the opportunity to measure up the shortest reasonable length of extension cord that would make it from the mains timer in the carport to the car and cut down my 25 meter Bunnings cord to 12 meters. I haven't blogged it yet, but the socket end now has a custom "shroud" on it that covers the Vogue fuel inlet nicely. Water is directed via a lttle moat through a tube to underneath the car. That's the original system. Anyway, it charged with no problem and this morning when I unplugged the cord from the car the pug was dry. The hinged fuel cover was another matter but a quick dry with a towel helped before closing it - I'll make up a plastic "sock" of some sort for that - no biggy.

As I left it last night.

I added this next photo to this post on the 29th July. The white part of the socket is a $2.50 plumbing fitting cut to size and glued on so that is extends about 3mm past the end of the extension cord's socket. Since the Vogue's plug is elevated above the "moat" by the same amount, it forms a splashproof connection. You can see the drain hole which goes via a plastic hose in the boot (the original) down through to under the car. I have now charged several time in pouring rain with no water at all getting under the socket.

That's not my 150K Ohm resistor - it's in the original sealed socket! The socket has a pathetic little red LED that is barely visible when the power is on.

Second Week as Daily driver

Not much to report about the Vogue other than I have driven it every day this week with no issues. I logged data from the dashboard to and from work on Thursday and some interesting things came out of it. The major one being that my acceleration up to 4 km/h is slower than 4 km/h to 70 km/h. This has to do with the controller de-rating it's output below 5 Hz.

This isn't a hard problem to get around - in fact by changing it's "carrier" or PWM switching frequency to 4 kHz the problem goes away - but it's too noisy. I currently use 16/8/2 kHz auto switching where the controller auto-changes based on motor current but it appears to have an idiosynchrosy that retains the 16 kHz current limit even when it's auto switched to 2 kHz. It looks like I'll have to add some function blocks to switch it over.

My logging laptop on the passenger floor.

A timer on the carport 15 A power point would be handy too. I currently go out each night at 11PM to turn my chargers on. I have bought a 16 A timer in a nice outside enclosure but I have to add some leads and install it. Soon....

I'll post the daily economy figures for this week during the weekend.

Third day as daily and Battery Alarm sounds

On was on my way home last night and stopped at a major intersection to turn right. When I got the green arrow and moved off, the battery alarm alert started. I pulled over as soon as practical and popped the bonnet. (I do not yet have my controller keypad in the cabin which tells me which of three regions in the car the alert came from). All the blue lights were still lit on the engine bay packs. I moved around to the boot - and it was LOCKED. So I turned the car off, unlocked the boot (I needed the key from the ignition) and got back in and started driving again. The alert started within 10 seconds. I stopped again and checked the boot packs. Pack #4's light was off.

At this point I should have bypassed pack #4 which would have taken all of two minutes but for some foggy reason I decided to limp the 3 km home.
I got home OK (annoyed a bit of traffic) and checked voltages on all packs. Most packs were 52.4 VDC. Pack #4 was 36 VDC. In my mind I had clearly ruined some cells.

I placed the car on charge and within a few seconds the charger light for pack #4 showed it was fully charged. Hmmm. To cut to the chase, the inline fuse from the charger to the pack was very hot and the fuse holder was melted and at a strange angle.

The diode isolator and inline fuse assemblies for the chargers.

This is the second fuse holder that has melted - I replaced the one on pack #12 about three weeks ago. These fuses only take 3 Amps but it appears to be too much for the el-cheapo fuse holder.

I pulled the diode/fuse assembly out and soldered in a fuse directly and heatshrunk it with a couple of layers. I then placed pack #4 back on charge. It didn't get hot at all after that. Pack #4 took a full 3 Amps for more than 6 hours so it clearly survived and I learnt some helpful clues.

Clue #1
According to the smart meter online monitor, the night after my 60 km day, the house drew 3 kW for an hour then 2.7 kW for 3 hours. The clue was that one charger had dropped out after the first hour (smartmeter resolution is 0.1 kW).

Clue #2
On the drive home, several kilometers before the alarm, the full pack voltage was dropping under 600 VDC regularly. I had not even seen that on the 60 km run, except under really heavy load. Now I know to pay attention.

Clue #3
No so much a clue as observation. Don't skimp on parts - especially cheap ones. I'll replace all the fuse holders as time permits and solder the fuses directly into the assemblies.

There are obviously down sides to the one-charger-per-pack system but the alert system obviously works fine. I need a reliable wireless mains power monitor for the EV outlet - the one I have is rubbish due to the non-linear power factor issue with the chargers (I think I'll crack the sender open and see what I can change/fudge).

The battery alarm drives you insane - it's very loud. I was originally concerned that you wouldn't hear it because it's up under the dash somewhere. The alarm also locks in and can't be cancelled without turning the car off - not hard to change but I'll see how it goes - It normally shouldn't go off anyway..

I am now carrying a short bypass cable and the tools to bypass a pack (and a multimeter) - the Vogue can run on as little as nine packs (I have twelve).
Yesterday's battery to wheel was 7.22 AH for 32.06 km => 132 wh/km
I drove the Vogue in again today.

Vogue Almost Together again - shunt wire wrong!

The Vogue engine bay is almost back together. During the re-fit, I am using a lot more split conduit tubing than I originally installed after reading about a commercial EV converter's product that appears to suffer from "chaffed wiring" amongst other things. I've probably gone a bit overboard. There are many places where the traction wiring is now triple insulated but better safe than sorry. I'm also trying to neaten up the control wiring a bit.

The shunt wire for my chargers arrived and I find that Ni-chrome wire is just as it always was - not able to be soldered. We crimped on some pin crimps but the resistance worked out almost double what it should have been and varied under physical stress so I gave that away as a bad idea.

So - I have ordered ten 0.015 Ohm shunts from element14. I didn't really need ten as I can make up half of the shunts from two of the old removed shunts soldered together but the price break was ten.

I didn't want to use these originally as they are a bit large (lead spacing). I just have to assume that I can bend them without any problems.
I was really annoyed to see that that element14 have dropped their free shipping on any internet order so its probably the last time I'll use them. It's not that much of a detour for me to go past another electronics supplier on my way to work.

Controller Tray Rivnuts Installed

I replaced all twelve of the M4 nuts and bolts on the controller tray with M4 Rivnuts last night. It meant drilling out the 4mm holes to a fraction over 6mm. The last two were a pain as I managed to chip the leading edge of my 6mm cobolt drill bit. Anyway, now the two charger stacks and the Fuse/Contactor box on the tray can be removed easily. I have added the daughter board to 8 of the chargers so only four to go. The low current setting varies from 230 to 350mA across the chargers I have modified so far (I want 180mA) so I hope my new shunt wire arrives soon.

Rotor in, Motor in

I have re-installed the rotor back in the motor, fitted the shaft encoder and re-fitted my IP65 spray can lid. The only silicone I had was the high temperature stuff that I used on the heater core. That worked nicely.

I'm glad border adhesive is useful for something (weight). After the huge trouble we had stripping it off my daughter's bedroom wall we swore we would never use it again.

Since I had to wait a day for the silicone to set, I turned my attention to the chargers and controller tray. I am going to drill out all the 4mm holes and use M4 rivnuts so that I can get stuff off the tray without having to remove it (the tray). I ran out and bought a 6mm cobolt drill (for stainless steel - it works really well) and tried to use a manual method to insert the rivnut - no good. I'll take the tray to work and see if I can use the tool there. So the tray is in the boot of the Super Snipe.

The blue circles are some of the 4mm holes - the red is a 6mm hole I have drilled out.
The DC-DC block (still on tray) is another matter. It's held on with M6 bolts through the bottom from inside the case (nuts underneath). It isn't impossible to get off without removing the tray - just difficult.




As of Sunday afternoon, the motor is back in the car.
It took me and William about an hour of messing around with a jemmy bar and many blocks of wood to get the rear of the motor to a height where I could get the Jack under it. From there it was relatively easy.

I have about half the chargers (six) left to modify. I have to change the current shunts in all the chargers to finalize my modifications for two current settings - 3A and 180mA. I have ordered some shunt wire but it's not due for a week or so. I can still finish installing the controller tray since the rivnuts will allow me to install the chargers afterwards.

Daughter board for current switching shown circled.

My two spare chargers (where I tested this modification) didn't need the shunts changed - they were 12 milliohm. The twelve chargers in the car appear to have anything from 6 to 9 milliohm shunts which makes the low current setting too high - hence the shunt change.

The modification allows the charger to charge at 3 Amps then, when the current drops to less than 300mA, the charger switches to 180mA Constant Current - which is the value that the rudman regulators (cell bypass resistors) in my packs are set. It'll means that charging the car is a set and forget operation - which is as it should be.

Issues to Resolve - not quite finished

A number of people have congratulated me on finished the Vogue. Getting Vic Roads approval was a goal but unfortunately isn't the end of the project.
Back at the end of 2012 this ended one of my posts:
"My target for the moment is VicRoads approval so everything else can wait. I pick up the polycarbonate partition for the boot tomorrow and I'll be preparing the car for inspection over the Christmas to new Year break."

So now it's approved but not quite finished.
Known issues:

1. Tailshaft speed vibration - I suspect differential pinion angle. This is the big one and stops me driving it too much until it's sorted.
2. Brake master cylinder. Pedal is not returning fully. Not a big issue but indicative of a problem. I have a spare (I think) so I'll restore that and do a changeover. We caused this when we flushed through new brake fluid - a common problem in cars that haven't been driven in a while.
3. Winding window outside weatherstrips. I need to dis-assemble all doors and replace the clips - they're falling off inside the doors. Getting the correct clips is a pain as the originals don't fit due to a difference in the weatherstrip. (I kind of knew I had a problem when I fitted them then warned the family not to wind the windows all the way down.)
4. Slight "thump" when starting from stationary. This is a controller programming issue. It's fine going on and off regen when actually moving - it's just when starting. Annoying.
5. Front end work. Knox Tyrepower noted that while most of the front end was fine, there are a couple of bushes that need replacing. While at it, I'd like to get prices on lowering the front about 20 to 25mm.
6. Remove and modify all 12 chargers. I am not at all happy with how they balance the packs at the end of charge. I have modified one of my spares and it worked well so I now need to remove, modify and replace all chargers. The rear ones are easy - the front not so. While I am at it I am going to replace all M4 nuts and bolts on the front controller tray with rivnuts so I can get individual items off the tray without having to remove the tray as I have to now.
7. Front parcel shelf (below the dash). Laurel wants it back in. It doesn't really exist anymore as it was a total wreck. I kept the metal front though.
8. Car Radio and speakers. Also mounting for the little Lenze (motor controller) keypad and display.
9. The "other" controller - the 75kW version. I have all the parts for the upgrade but it's pretty low down on the priority list. Unfortunate, as more power would be nice.

There is other stuff but they are the main issues.
We are renovating my daughter's bedroom while she is away for the next two weeks so the Vogue fixups will wait until that's done.

Pack Balancing and Charger Modifications

With all the manual(ish) pack balancing I do, I had already designed a small circuit that would automatically deliver 3A until the pack's BMS cut out, then dial back to 180mA - the balancing current for my packs. I wasn't looking forward to making these, nor fitting them.
With that in mind I thought I would try again to find a schematic of the Kingpan chargers that I am using. I found a thread on Endless-sphere that (somewhat indirectly - I can't figure out now how I found it) pointed to a site in Europe where a guy (thanks Albert) had reversed engineered some other brand of charger based on a TL494 chip (my favourite PWM controller).

I grabbed the circuit, pulled the lid off one of my spare chargers and - guess what - yes they are practically identical. There are a few resistor values that are different but just about everything is the same. It was relatively easy to devise a small daughter board that used the Op-amp that was driving the transition of a bi-colour LED on the charger to trigger the changer to cut it's current from 3A down to 180mA. The challenge was to be able to do the modifications without having to remove the main PCB from the case - with all the complications of re-seating power devices on heatsinks. I found that the best was was to remove one resistor and solder on four wires to a daughter board. The daughter board is circled in red. The heatshrink gets cut down, shrunk, then glued to the nearest strong component. I'll improve that toroid's mounting too - while I have the Sikaflex out.

Now this charger has built-in balancing tailored to my pack's BMSs.
I don't have to do all the chargers at once, just as I get around to them.

Pack #9 Update (balancing the battery packs)

There's those who say that you can't tell a LiFePO4 cell's  State Of Charge (SOC) from the cell voltage.
They're right!

In my previous post I mentioned that cells around 3.3V appeared to only be about 2 to 4AH shy of fully charged.
Well in Pack #9, we have so far put 11AH into a cell that initially measured at 3.28V and it's only just up to 3.5V - so it's nearly charged. The critical voltage at 20 degrees C for reasonably new LiFePO4 Headway cells seems to be between 3.2 and 3.4 V.

I had ideas of logging pack voltage and current and coming up with a SOC indicator that didn't have to measure AH in and out of the pack. The idea was to compensate the pack voltage with the current being drawn from it and assume a particular SOC from the compensated voltage. I think it may be harder than that!


William is at home today and I'm at work, so I am getting cell voltage and current updates from him.

Battery Pack Balancing Update

The pack balancing is going well, albeit slowly. I have two 180mA current source chargers running all the time balancing the cells in packs that didn't show alerts during the drive. I move them to the next pack when the pack under charge gets to 59 VDC (3.69 * 16). As well as that, I am pulling each of the 5 alerting packs (minus one that was too difficult to remove and responded to 3.5 days of 180mA charging) out of the car, lifting the lid, and charging the low cells with an Individual Cell Charger (ICC).

The ICC is a small PC power supply that has an adjustable 5V, 5A output. It doesn't adjust all the way down to 3.7V so I have two 3A diodes in series and have it set to 5.2VDC. The diodes drop 1.6V at 3A and 1.5V at 180mA so it's reasonably safe to leave unattended. When I pull a pack from the car, I start by measuring all cell pairs then use the ICC on the low cells. I generally find that there are about 12 cell pairs over 3.6V and 4 at 3.3 to 3.4. The 3.3V seem to need about 4 AH put into them. Cells that have been 3.2V have needed up to 17AH. Considering the cell pairs are 20AH, that's pretty discharged.

So far all but one of the packs (the one that had a cell that took 17AH) I have pulled out have had the 180mA treatment before I decided to remove them, but pack #9 which get removed from the car tonight has only had the post-drive charge to 58.4V, (the 3A charger cut back after only an hour) so it will be interesting to see the SOC of the cells.
I only have one of the alerting packs left to pull out of the car, pack #9.